Curse

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

[skill]Patient Spirit[/skill]

[skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill]

[skill]Heal Other[/skill]

Ok most player who play monk would have known the best atribute for healing monk are (assuming all minor rune):
+ 6 Inspiration
+ 12 Divine
+ 14 Healing Prayer

That means when use we use the Dwayna's Kiss + Patient spirit combo will give the sum of:
+ "Dwayna's Kiss" will give 57 + 33 healing.
+ "Patient Spirit" will give 114 healing.
+ Divine Favor 38 x 2 = 76 healing.
TOTAL: 90 + 114 + 76 = 280 healing.
Energy cost: 10 e
Spam rate (recharge): 3 sec
Time for healing take effect: 2 sec

But when use "Heal Other" + "Healer's Boon" will give the sum of:
+ "Heal other" will give 170 healing.
+ Divine Favor 38 healing.
+ "Healer's Boon" buff 170 / 2 = 85 healing.
TOTAL: 170 + 85 + 38 = 293 healing.
Energy cost: 10 e
Spam rate (Recharge): 3 sec
Time for healing take effect: (3/4) / 2 = 3/8 sec (Which mean less than .5 s)

Ok now tell me why do we want to use the "Dwayna's Kiss" + "Patient Spirit" combo if "Heal Other" + "Healer's Boon" combo is better?
1. 293 healing vs 280 healing.
2. 3/8 s healing effect vs 2 s healing effect.
Same energy cost, same recharge healing spam.

So, this is my suggestion to improve the "Patient Spirit"

Patient Spirit
Recharge: 3s (Same)
Cast time: 1/4s (Same)
Energy: 5e (Same)
For 2 seconds, target ally is Enchanted with Patient Spirit. When this Enchantment ends, that ally is healed for 50...132 Health (Healing buff + Same waiting time)
EDITED: Forget the part of 1s Cast Dwayna it won't work if 1s to take effect.

Or it can be change to

Patient Spirit
Recharge: 3s (Same)
Cast time: 1/4s (Same)
Energy: 5e (Same)
For 3 seconds, target ally AND ALL THE ADJACENT ALLY is Enchanted with Patient Spirit. When this Enchantment ends, those allies are healed for 30...90 Health (Healing nerf + longer waiting time)

Other idea:

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

I think Patient Spirit should be like [skill=text]Ancestors' Rage[/skill] which is unaffectedly by the level and damage bonuses from effects on the caster, such as [skill=text]Destructive was Glaive[/skill] it instead treats the target ally as the source of the spell.

I think this should be the same for patient spirit, making it a good skill for [skill=text]Healer's Covenant[/skill] not necessarily changing anything about the skills stats.

Thanks!

The Meth · Jan 28, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Well your first change would be far overpowered. First off the competition for Patient spirit isn't Heal Other + Healer's Boon, its Dwayna itself and with that first buff it would pretty much always outclass dwayna. 25 second cast time + 1 second to wait = 1.25 seconds, or only .25 seconds more then dwayna's kiss. In return it would be nigh uninterruptable and heal for more unless the target had more then 2 enchants on them. Maybe if you didn't buff the time it would be ok.

The second change looks pretty interesting though.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Uhmm you don't sound like you play healer much. ALL healer so far I have seen ALL bring Dwayna's Kiss.

Reason?
1. Against hex way.
2. Out heal orison w/ a good prot and/or Eles team.

And if you want to compare D-Kiss + healer's Boon vs Patient Spirit + D-kiss. The healing from the Healer's Boon combo STILL out heal the Patient Spirit.

That I have not talked about the 2 times cast vs 1 time cast. What does it make a different? SS will apply twice. More chance for Shame taking effect.

The 100+ heal from P-Spirit is nothing really. For 2 sec indirect heal. It's pretty bad.

If you want the P-Spirit + D-Kiss + H-Boon, I tell you this, it is impossible. Not enough place for that. It only works with the WoH combo.

MagmaRed · Jan 28, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Use Healer's Boon with Patient Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss if you want more power on them.

System_Crush · Jan 28, 2008, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I think Patient Spirit should be like [skill=text]Ancestors' Rage[/skill] which is unaffectedly by the level and damage bonuses from effects on the caster, such as [skill=text]Destructive was Glaive[/skill] it instead treats the target ally as the source of the spell.

I think this should be the same for patient spirit, making it a good skill for [skill=text]Healer's Covenant[/skill] not necessarily changing anything about the skills stats.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Use Healer's Boon with Patient Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss if you want more power on them.

You wish, don't make comment like this if you don't know or know it would be impossible. There is not enough places for your spells for that kind of combo esp when u HA or GvG.

"System_Crush" idea is interesting!

Faer · Jan 28, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Ok most player who play monk would have known the best atribute for healing monk are (assuming all minor rune):
+ 6 Inspiration
+ 12 Divine
+ 14 Healing Prayer

I actually run 14 Healing, 9/10 Divine Favor, and 9/10 Protection Prayers, because I like to have some prot handy for you know, keeping the red bars up better.

XiaoTheBlade · Jan 28, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

You wish, don't make comment like this if you don't know or know it would be impossible. There is not enough places for your spells for that kind of combo esp when u HA or GvG.

"System_Crush" idea is interesting!

You fail.

Your first example it is hardy a fair test. You have patient and dwaynas, up against heal other and an elite. You could easily use that elite with the patient kiss combo and it would heal for much more than heal other, so I really don't see the point of this topic.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 28, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Ok most player who play monk would have known the best atribute for healing monk are (assuming all minor rune):
+ 6 Inspiration
+ 12 Divine
+ 14 Healing Prayer

Stopped reading here, when it became clear the OP was a bad monk and therefore clueless.

blakecraw · Jan 28, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Wiki

Useful when used with Healer's Covenant, as the healing is not reduced. Conversely, it goes poorly with Healer's Boon, as the healing is not boosted.

It already heals for more than an un-booned heal other, allows for using dwayna's at 5e instead of heal other when you don't need a big heal, and if there are multiple hexes/enchants (not unlikely, especially if you are smart and are running heal and prot spells) it will heal for more than a booned heal other. There has to be some drawback, which is a longer wait for the heal.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

I actually run 14 Healing, 9/10 Divine Favor, and 9/10 Protection Prayers, because I like to have some prot handy for you know, keeping the red bars up better.

This is not a healer. This call Pyro Monk. Running monk with prot spirit. Depend on the build you are running. Pyro monk can be useful or not. If running this, Patient Spirit is out of question even with a buff.!

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by XiaoTheBlade

You fail.

Your first example it is hardy a fair test. You have patient and dwaynas, up against heal other and an elite. You could easily use that elite with the patient kiss combo and it would heal for much more than heal other, so I really don't see the point of this topic.

Uhmm. What I show you is not just the healing effect but the realistic of the skill itself. Pa-Spirit is an indirect heal. You might say that running Pa-Spirit with WoH (which I think is the most effective combo for Pa-Spirit) but really in the game, you wont have the 2 sec to heal. Plus WoH is spamable Better spam it every 3s than wasting 10e and heal the same amount every 3s.

Again, Pa-Spirit + D-kiss + H-Boon WILL NOT WORK. Thats a combo of 3 skills. It won't fit to either healer or Pyro monk.

Talk about GvG. Out of question. No place for Patient spirit crap.

Talk about HA.
1. Channeling (a must unless running some smite ball)
2. Veil/Spotless (also a must unless running some weird crap)
3. Draw condition
4. Orison (out of question)
5. Infuse (also out of question)
6. Heal Party / Healing Seed (No need to explain) Pyro gonna run Prot spirit on this of course.

You only leave 2 spells left. Oh you can say take out Draw Condition and the ele bring it instead. Here is how much more you can get from Patient Spirit. 280 + 90/2 = 325 heal - 293 = 32 heal (90 is how much you get from D-kiss + 1 Enchant. Divide by 2 is from the 50% buff heal.) Thats how much you get more heal from using Pa-Spirit + D-kiss + H-Boon compare to Heal Other + Healer's Boon. And 1 is 3/8 s cast, the other is 2 sec for healing taking effect. What's the point of this combo of 3 for?

That mean the combo of 3 is unrealistic.

To "Stormlord Alex": Reason? No reason = your post spam! You did not even read = You have small brain. Talk about something you did not even read. It's just great!

Point of this post? Patient Spirit is in no use unless running with Healer's Covenant which is also out of use. Running it with D-kiss is a waste of skill slot. It's not effective. Right now, there's no point of running Patient Spirit. I think this type of "indirect heal" need a little bit of buff.

You might ask why not asking buffing other healing skill? Patient Spirit is such a good skill that is in no use and/or inefficient use.

The Meth · Jan 28, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Your first post is suggesting a full healer monk taking Dwayna's AND patient. The fact is full heal monks are bad, hybrids are better in 99% of cases. And when running a hybrid you don't have room to take dwayna's and patient, its one or the other. As you say ALL healers bring dwayna's kiss, because its the best. They don't have room for patient because they are bringing other skills. The only way to get patient on a bar would be to make it better then dwayna's so it could replace it.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 28, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

To "Stormlord Alex": Reason? No reason = your post spam!

It's self evident to the people that have a clue.

But because you didn't get it... Inspiration is bad. GoLE > the whole Inspiration line.

And pure healing is bad. 12 heal / 10-9 prot and 8-9 divine is good.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Oh ok? You talk about GvG then Pa-Spirit is out of question. You run it = you are noob.

And if talking about HA? GoLE? Wow, you wish running this in HA as a monk. Channeling is bad nice joke.

Pure healing is bad? I'm talking about the option that can be run with patient Spirit. Running Pyro Monk CAN NOT have Pa-spirit. please list the skill for me to see if you can run it. If can not run then why need to talk about Pa-spirit? It's not even in use. WoW just wow!

Really you have no idea what are you talking about. I'm talking about the build that Pa-Spirit can be used but it's not effective hence need a buff. You talk about builds that don't even use Pa-Spirit. Then why talk?

MagmaRed · Jan 28, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

You compared a 2 skill combo to a 2 skill combo. One of those 2 skill combos used an elite, the other did not. If need be, make them both 3 skill combos, and use an elite for both. This will show Healer's Boon to out heal almost every other combo you can think up. Start adding in skills like Ethereal Light, Healing Whisper, Jamei's Gaze, and Infuse Health, and you see Boon has a huge potential. Adding in an elite to Patient Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss only offers Word of Healing, Glimmer of Light, and Healing Light. Patient is a good skill to use to anticipate healing. Cast it on someone taking minimal damage, and when they need the heal, they get it. During that 2 seconds, you can then heal someone else.

I don't see anything wrong with Patient Spirit, and have found it to be a nice skill. I don't use it often, but it works good when I need it to. I do see a problem with your comparison, as you are using an elite for half of it.

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

You compared a 2 skill combo to a 2 skill combo. One of those 2 skill combos used an elite, the other did not. If need be, make them both 3 skill combos, and use an elite for both. This will show Healer's Boon to out heal almost every other combo you can think up. Start adding in skills like Ethereal Light, Healing Whisper, Jamei's Gaze, and Infuse Health, and you see Boon has a huge potential. Adding in an elite to Patient Spirit and Dwayna's Kiss only offers Word of Healing, Glimmer of Light, and Healing Light. Patient is a good skill to use to anticipate healing. Cast it on someone taking minimal damage, and when they need the heal, they get it. During that 2 seconds, you can then heal someone else.

I don't see anything wrong with Patient Spirit, and have found it to be a nice skill. I don't use it often, but it works good when I need it to. I do see a problem with your comparison, as you are using an elite for half of it.

yes, I like it too. But in fact, it's so unrealistic of running it even with any combo I can think of. A buff of 50 HP heal more compare to healer's Boon combo would be more realistic. 50 more heal for an indirect heal is really not too powerful. Or make it AoE heal (small area) and reduce the heal effect. You might say omg this is too powerful but balling up just for 50 heal AoE isn't very smart. Prob need more recharge if this buff take effect.

Div · Jan 28, 2008, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NamelessBeauty

Ok now tell me why do we want to use the "Dwayna's Kiss" + "Patient Spirit" combo if "Heal Other" + "Healer's Boon" combo is better?

So if you take a look at the skill Healer's boon, you'll notice a yellow/gold border around it. I believe that's what people would call as an "elite skill".

If you didn't get the memo yet, the first combo allows you to still use an elite skill, whereas the second doesn't. Plus the second forces you into a (near) full healing monk, which is generally bad, but I won't go there because you'd probably throw hissy fits like everyone else that share the philosophy of "I beat the game, therefore I'm good"

NamelessBeauty · Jan 28, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

LMAO at Divine.

You don't get my point, it's not the comparation lol. Think it as a whole. How many times you have seen or use Patient Spirit. Though I know u would agree that Patient Spirit is good. A bit of a buff would have make it be in use more offen.

Btw this is Roast Bunny, wow!

HawkofStorms · Jan 28, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

So if you take a look at the skill Healer's boon, you'll notice a yellow/gold border around it. I believe that's what people would call as an "elite skill".

If you didn't get the memo yet, the first combo allows you to still use an elite skill, whereas the second doesn't. Plus the second forces you into a (near) full healing monk, which is generally bad, but I won't go there because you'd probably throw hissy fits like everyone else that share the philosophy of "I beat the game, therefore I'm good"

QFT. "pryo monks" (a term I've never heard used to describe heal/prot hybrids) are generally superior.

One of the reasons I don't see Patient Spirit is because it is a GW:EN skill. I've seen Dwayna's Kiss be used... thousands of times since the release of Phrophecies, back when it was just Guild Wars.

People use what they are used to and are familar with. The real problem with patient is the way it behaves as a delayed heal (which is... the point of the skill). Somebody who is used to Dwayna's Kiss or Infusing, etc and have been playing it for 2 years have a very hard time adjusting to the behavior of patient. It just throws off the timing of most experienced monks. So it hardly ever sees any play.